This is the seventh article in a series of posts regarding questions I recently answered for churches looking for a new pastor. However, this article starts a change in the series as this question deals with role-playing, or how a pastor would/should handle a particular scenario.
Most of the questions deal with scenarios regarding divorce, sexual sin, marriage and/or remarriage, leadership, and church ministry.
When I attended The Master’s Seminary back in 1998, I had a Discipleship Lab class with Stuart Scott. The class was, essentially, a handful of students in a small room where we asked and answered questions concerning what we’d likely encounter in pastoral ministry. I remember that Stuart counseled each of us to make sure we understood what the Bible taught about marriage, divorce, and remarriage, and that we knew where we stood on each of these hot topics. The reason Stuart gave was, “There are many ‘what if’s’ when it comes to marriage, divorce, and remarriage, but most of the ‘what if’s’ can be easily answered if you understand what the Bible teaches regarding these three issues.”
And there is a lot of truth to what Mr. Scott taught us.
(A word of caution. If you or someone you know is being physically abused by their spouse or has an abusive husband, do whatever you can to immediately remove them from that abusive situation, seek godly, biblical counsel from your pastor, contact the necessary police authorities, and get on your knees in prayer to God about how best to handle the problem for God’s glory alone.)
Here is the problem/scenario and below that is how I answered it. What do you think about my answer? What did I miss? What did I answer correctly or what did I just plain answer incorrectly?
[stextbox id=”custom”]An adult woman member is a Sunday school teacher for children at your church. She is considering filing for divorce because her unsaved husband is physically abusive to her and her children. She comes to you for your advice. What, in a biblical context, would you tell her ? Cite the Scripture upon which you would base your advice.[/stextbox]
MY COUNSEL: The Bible does not teach that physical abuse (either to a wife or to children) is a permissible basis for divorce. Therefore, I would lovingly counsel this woman that divorce is not a biblical option in her difficult situation. However, there is nothing to suggest that God demands a battered woman and/or her battered children to live in the same home with a man that is physically abusive. I would tenderly counsel this woman to temporarily separate from her husband (and by this I mean to simply find a safe, temporary place to live with her children away from the abusive husband) and to pray and seek for ultimate reconciliation and the salvation of her unsaved husband. I would also encourage her to consider reporting the physical abuse to the proper civil authorities. My reasoning is due to the fact that abuse and assault (particularly against children) is against the law and must be reported (Christians are to obey civil law so long as it does not disobey God’s law). Reporting the physical abuse may also assist in the process of achieving future reconciliation with her husband. Lastly, I see no reason why a Christian woman in such circumstances would be required to step down from her Sunday school teaching duties at the church, so long as she does not subsequently file for divorce.
(Scriptures I would cite: Genesis 2:24; Malachi 2:14-16; Matthew 5:32; 18:15-17; 19:3-9; Mark 10:11-12; Romans 7:2-3; 1 Corinthians 7:10-16, 20-24, 27, 39; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Proverbs 6:32-33)
Below is a reply I gave to a woman who sent me a direct email regarding this article. I felt it would be helpful to paste it below for anyone who might have further questions. Hope it helps…
Hello _________________, and thank you for your comments. I do truly appreciate them. A few thoughts…
1) I’m glad you are out of that situation of physical abuse. No one should ever have to endure abuse or torture, whether they are Christian or non-Christian. Period.
2) I’m happy to hear that ________________ is treating you well.
3) You’re probably right in that I’m not that qualified in giving advice. However, if you read the article again, I think you will agree that that is the very reason for the question in the first place. The church asked this question of each pastoral candidate about how we might handle that “particular” situation in the event that it arises. And I assume that you’d agree, most men (which includes “most” pastors) are not overly experienced when it comes to counseling women, particular in this scenario. Yet that’s the very reason for the question.
4) The answer I provided was from a pastoral perspective, and how I would lead the church toward Christ-likeness, as best as I know how. When it comes down to it, the Bible ALONE is our guide in all things related to faith, life, and practice. So whatever it says, whenever it comments on specific issues, is how Christians should lead their lives. Period. I do fully realize that there are times in which the Scripture comments about some things (i.e. divorce) that we might feel aren’t “fair.” But the issue is not whether or not Scripture is fair, it is about whether or not we will trust and obey God, regardless of whether or not it is comfortable or convenient for us at the moment.
5) Your ex-husband sinned against both God and you. It sounds like you did a fantastic job of sticking with that man for many years and praying for his salvation. I hope you’re still praying that he’d come to the Lord. If your divorce was filed by you under the case of unrepentant (and unending) adultery by your husband, then Scripture does say that you are free to divorce in that case. (It also says that you’re then free to then remarry, but only in the Lord; only to a genuine Christian…which is a whole other issue altogether). Scripture teaches that there are two acceptable reasons for divorce: adultery and abandonment. Therefore, as much as I might love to counsel battered women to file for divorce from their husband because he is physically abusive, from a Scriptural standpoint, that is simply not an option. Certainly the woman (and any children) could and should separate from such a man, and maybe separate forever, but physical abuse is simply not a biblical basis for divorce.
6) Finally, I appreciate your thoughts and your comments, and I think I’ll add another cautionary sentence or two to my article, just to clarify a thing or two. So I thank you for that.
In summary, I’m totally stoked that you read my article and felt strongly enough about it to send me your message. I wasn’t trying to be controversial…just honest…and just true to Scripture. God bless you __________________, and continue to pray for the salvation of both your ex-husband and your current husband. Take care.
– Charles
The Bible gives abandonment as cause for a divorce. Has not the husband abandoned his duties as the husband (that is to care and respect and love his wife as God has love him) by abusing his wife? It also clearly states in the Bible that children are to love, taught and protected. Does not protecting them include not placing them in situations such as abuse? Is it not just as wrong to continue to allow someone to abuse a child as it is to be the one that abused them? I think your view is very narrow minded. I personally, can not believe that God would want someone to stay in a marriage where they and/or their children are being abused.
Kitty, you are right in that the Bible allows for divorce if the believing spouse is abandoned by an unbelieving spouse. But you are not completely correct in your definition of abandonment.
Abandonment means to desert. To leave. To abandon for good. To pack up and leave for forever. It doesn’t mean to neglect one’s duty, as in being loving, or mowing the grass, or playing with the kids, or cleaning the bathroom, etc. The Pharisees in Jesus’ day thought that a man could divorce his wife for any reason (such as burning dinner), but Jesus discredited that belief/interpretation. Moreover, abandonment does NOT include abuse (physical, sexual, etc.). That is a different sin altogether…and a different article altogether.
We need to be clear about what these terms mean, because if you want to interpret or define Scripture subjectively…then anything goes. We need to accurately handle God’s Word.
And did you think I was condoning abuse, either to a wife or children? I sure hope not, because I most certainly was not. All abuse is wrong, so please go back and re-read the article once again.
Lastly, if my article “is very narrow minded,” then keep in mind that’s what you’re saying about God’s Word. My article (which was based on a pastoral application questionnaire) addressed what God’s Bible says about these issues. No doubt I had to interpret those Scriptures with the rest of what God’s Bible says, but I do believe I was accurate and faithful to the texts. Therefore, if I am correct (which I believe I am), then you are actually saying that God is narrow minded…not me. Keep that in mind. 🙂
Sorry, one more thing. Your last sentence is an issue as well. Obeying God and His Word should NEVER come down to “I personally, can not believe” because you are putting your opinions above what God said. It is certainly tough to do at times, because many times understanding the mind of the Lord is difficult, but it is what we need to do.
I’m open to discussing these points further here, but you would need to provide more than just “I personally believe” or “I think your view is narrow minded.” Scripture always determines what truth is. Always.
Lets take this point to point
1. Abandonment does mean “To leave” – the husband leaves and abandons his vows to God and his wife by breaking Gods law to “Love your wife with the same love Christ showed to the church” Ephesians 5:25 – 33
2. Nowhere in my statement did I even suggest that you condone such abuse. Most of my statement was asking questions based on my interpretation of God’s word.
3. “Narrow minded” your article stated that this was “Your counsel” to the woman. This was what I basing my opinion on. Your counsel does show points in the Bible to back up your words (as do mine) and (just like everyone else in the world and per your own admission) your interpretation of those words in the Bible. Your interpretation is not going to be the exact same as everyone else. You believe you are correct in your interpretation. As I believe I am correct in my interpretation that God would never condone abuse of any kind. (Love yourself as I loved you. Love your neighbor as yours elf) meaning to love yourself and all other as God as loved you. God does not abuse and therefore does not want anyone else to abuse. God also states to not surround yourself with evil. Is in not evil to break God’s law and abuse people? Therefore, do not surround yourself with the abuse. Leave.
4. “I cannot believe” I stand by my statement. I cannot believe God would want someone to be abused Because his own word says different. Anything less than believing what God has said in his word is wrong, therefore I will not believe it if it did not come from God. God says to love all, not abuse. I will not believe otherwise.
5. We must all be open to the word of God. Since we all have our own minds that interpret the same story many different ways, it does become difficult to see the true meaning behind God’s word. Which is why he encourages us to go out and speak our interpretations and listen to those of others, so that combined we can find the true meaning behind his word. That in combination with Prayer and the Holy Spirit that Christ left with us, is our only path to understanding. When we hold our heads up and say “I am right” based on our interpretation and without even listening to the words of others God has sent (after all that is what we are doing when we read Paul’s story) is when we become narrow minded and have closed ourselves off to further teachings.
Dear Charles, I lovingly admonish you. As a male interpreting God’s word you have screened it through the eyes of your maleness. That is a fact. To state that you believe your interpretation is “the truth” is folly. All we can do as fallen beings (none-the-less) spirit filled hit at the ball. God is the ultimate judge and Jesus is truth. As a women I would always lovingly counsel a women to get away from abuse as the children are in danger. The sins of the father’s fall on their sons. We certainly want to end the cycle of abuse that seems to be so prevalent generationally.
Hello Debra, and thank you for stopping by. I appreciate your comments, but I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. I believe my advice was solid and biblical. What part(s) do you feel that I’ve made an error?
Moreover, I did address the issue of the woman leaving the situation. Maybe you missed that part? In the article I wrote the following, as you’ll see: (A word of caution. If you or someone you know is being physically abused by their spouse, do whatever you can to immediately remove them from that abusive situation, seek godly, biblical counsel from your pastor, contact the necessary police authorities, and get on your knees in prayer to God about how best to handle the problem for God’s glory alone.)
I also write this: “However, there is nothing to suggest that God demands a battered woman and/or her battered children to live in the same home with a man that is physically abusive. I would tenderly counsel this woman to temporarily separate from her husband (and by this I mean to simply find a safe, temporary place to live with her children away from the abusive husband) and to pray and seek for ultimate reconciliation and the salvation of her unsaved husband.”
Maybe you are referring to something in the comments?
Hi Charles,
I am one of your Twitter followers. I am also a
domestic violence survivor and now a domestic violence advocate. My
ministry DSW Ministries was started out of my personal experience as a
victim in the church, as a minister’s wife. I minister to all victims
and survivors, but my main focus is the church. Do you know why? Because
of pastors and churches who don’t help victims of abuse in their own
church. Because pastors counsel victims to submit to their husbands and
then the abuse will go away. Those women usually end up dead or in the
hospital. Women, like myself, who are counseled that they can’t divorce
their husbands, that they would be sinning against God for escaping an
abusive man. I was told I wouldn’t be able to serve in church as a
divorced woman. That I wouldn’t be able to remarry another Christian
man. That I would be alone for the rest of my life.That kind of counsel
kept me in an abusive marriage for 13 years. It almost destroyed me.
My
ex husband and I were leaders in the church, church planters. We served
in every ministry in the church. My ex husband was super christian at
church and an abusive man at home. I pretended that everything was ok.
My ex would not let me tell anyone what went on in our home because then
we would lose our position as church leaders. I dragged him to four
different Christian counselors. He didn’t participate in any of the
sessions. He said nothing was wrong with our marriage. I just had to
submit more.
You have no idea what it is like to be trapped, with
no options, no escape or hope in sight. Especially from a man’s
perspective. I was so depressed at one point that I shut down. I didn’t
think God was listening anymore so I quit praying. I woke up one morning
after a really horrible 13th anniversary disaster and decided I
couldn’t live this way anymore. I called one of my friends, who knew
what was going on all these years. She said to me something I will never
forget. She said God would still love me if I left my husband and got
out of this abuse. That was the turning point for me. I cried out to God
and said I would take whatever consequences that would come as a result
of me leaving, but I could not live with this abuse any longer.
Pastors
are usually uneducated about domestic violence in general. It is not
just physical violence. It is about control, manipulation, power, and
fear over their victims. There is emotional abuse, sexual abuse,
financial abuse, social abuse, psychological abuse, intimidation,
isolation. Someone can terrorize the victim without laying a finger on
her. Abuse always escalates and gets worse. Abusers come from all walks
of life, all races, all lifestyles, all religions. I have seen abuse
rampant in the church. It is the church’s dirty little secret. Most
pastors don’t know what to do about it either.
Victims have to
escape in a moment’s notice when their abuser is absent for a few
minutes. They have to go to a secret place where the abuser won’t find
her or her children. The abuser rarely discontinues the controlling
behavior because they have been doing it all their lives. I know women
who go back to the husbands after the husband supposedly says he is
sorry, won’t do it again, and has changed. Even the born again
Christians.The woman moves back in. Things are good for about a month or
two maybe. Then the abuse cycle comes back worse than ever. His cover
has been blown. He can’t trust her now. She betrayed him by leaving. The
leash is incredibly shorter than before. Most women wind up dead this
way. Victims must choose to leave and sever ties forever. That is the
only way that the abuse will end. Many abusers find the victim where
they are hiding. Many victims have to relocate to get away completely,
and start over.
If you are counseling women to separate, that is
not good enough. As long as she is legally married to the husband, he
still has control over her financially, legally, and emotionally. The
abuser destroys her credit, empties bank accounts, and forecloses on her
home, stalks her. How can she start over? How can she stay safe? How
can she get another job to support herself or family with everything in
shambles. The abuser needs help as well. But too many times the woman is
romanced back to the fold before there is any real change. I have seen
it many times.
Divorced is promoted as the unpardonable sin in
the church. You could be a former prostitute, a drunk, aborted your
baby, or be hooked on crack and be forgiven, start a new life, get
married, and even pastor a church. They stand up and give testimonies of
how big a sinner they were, and how God changed their life. Great.
Praise God. But someone hears about “sister so and so” and “Bro what’s
his name” got a divorce, then it is all over for them. They have a
scarlet letter forever. Well, there are a whole lot worse sins out there
than divorce.
The husband is supposed to love his wife as Christ
loved the church? What about the grace of Jesus? Forgiveness and
restoration? Jesus died on the cross for divorced people too. I am pro
family and pro marriage, but I am not pro abuse. It does not good for
the children to be raised in an environment like that. The whole
marriage could have a whole lot of sinful things going on in the
marriage like lying, hiding money, beatings, rape, neglect, cheating,
blackmail, humiliation, swearing, gambling, drinking, taking drugs etc.
Those things are pushed aside and minimized, all for maintaining the
“principle” of staying married. You believe that divorce is a sin
according to the bible? Great. But it isn’t any different than any other
sin that people can commit. God did allow Moses to grant divorces out
of the hardness of their hearts. God divorced Israel for idolatry. Yes,
There are consequences to all sin that we choose to commit. I chose
divorce in my case, even when I thought it to be wrong, because I didn’t
think the farce that was called our marriage glorified God, and never
would. Yes, we parted ways. I forgave him for what he did to me, and
don’t wish him any harm. But I would never move back into that house
with him.
I am remarried to a godly Christian man. We haven’t
even had a fight in the three years we’ve been married. We have a
marriage built on love, respect, and godliness, not abuse. He treats me
as I should be treated. He is a true christian leader in our home. I
respect and submit to him because I know he loves me and I trust him. We
serve in the church together and started this ministry. I hope my ex
got help for his behavioral problem. But life is too short to be a
punching bag.
Listen, Pastor, I could go on about this, but I
felt the need to at least talk to you about how irresponsible it is for
someone so influential to tell an abused woman that she can’t get a
divorce. Abuse is not about love or marriage or godliness or manliness.
You say you don’t condone abuse, but asking someone to stay in an
abusive marriage is condoning it. There are times when marriages are
broken and fail, and divorce is the only option. We are in a fallen
world. God will forgive divorce, give someone time to heal, and start
over again. God will bring something good from it. He did in my life. I
exhort you to preach about these things in the church pulpit. That abuse
will not be tolerated. That victims can come to you for help and feel
safe. That abusers can come to you for genuine help to stop being an
abuser. That God will love them no matter what.
Thanks for listening. You can contact me directly by Twitter if you care to respond. God Bless.
Hello Diana, and thanks for stopping by to read and comment.
I’m thankful you’re no longer in that situation. Yours was an ugly sinful situation on many fronts. However, please keep in mind that my article and answer has to do with the ONLY “acceptable” instances in which divorce would allowed, per what the Bible teaches.
The only two situations are adultery and abandonment. Therefore, I could never (as a pastor, for sure) counsel someone to get a divorce for something the Bible does not allow. It is in that instance that I would advise a separation. When it comes to physical abuse, I would advise immediate removal from the situation and to call the authorities.
God would never have a woman serve as a punching bag, but He also wouldn’t have her commit against what He says about divorce. The next best option would be to separate forever.
I know that you might not agree with me, but does this make sense?
Thanks for responding, Charles. I don’t have an issue with your viewpoint as long as it is permenant separation, with no contact with the abuser, and the woman is safe. Although separation does not protect her credit or her finances from her abuser. Only a legal divorce would serve that purpose. I am not sure a separation would protect the children from visitation rights and a custody battle. It depends on the state laws. For now, we will agree to disagree on a few things. God bless.
Charles, I must say that I would have responded in the same way as you years ago. Until I found myself in an abusive marriage. I stayed for the reasons I believed were Biblical. I strongly felt God’s nudge to leave but ignored it because it could not have been Biblical. One day the pastor’s wife told me she would have left because of the children. She said God would not condone children being abused by living in an abusive environment. Her husband, the pastor, said that as a pastor he could not tell me to leave, but being a friend who cared, he had to. I began to feverishly study the Scriptures and came across David Instone-Brewer’s books, Divorce and Remarriage in the Church and Divorce and Remarriage in the Bible. I also read Not Under Bondage by Barbara Roberts. The whole counsel of God began to make sense. Why on earth would God warn us against evil people and admonish us to withdraw from such, only to insist that those trapped in toxic, evil situations, often with vulnerable children, stay and be poisoned when His whole intention is for us to be whole? It’s like encouraging prayer for those with lung problems but insist they stay in a room full of smoke. After I left, at great risk and strongly rebuked by many who saw separation as the first step to divorce, I did not intend to divorce, but being an abusive man, my ex-husband used the fact that we were still legally married to continue to exercise power and control over our lives. With the blessing of my pastors and elders (who do not openly support divorce for abuse from the pulpit), I decided to file for divorce. My children are beginning to heal although the eldest is deeply scarred and may be personality disordered due to her upbringing. I wish I had been taught the Scriptures correctly much earlier.
I am so glad you heard God and obeyed. I was too stubborn to trust God to take care of me so I stayed in an anusive marriage for 34 years,.” Trusting God” to change my husband. The abuse, as it always does, escalated. My daughter was advesally affects, is in an abusive relationship herself, has abused me herself. I blame my husband the abuser, and myself for failing to trust Gos who told me He had never expected me to stay with a man who was breaking Gos’s laws and man’s! My daughter is a drug addict. Her little daughter has been affected by my husbands abuse of me, but finally he has left the home, so I am safe and so is my 5 yr old granddaughter. She is the main reason I had the courage to make him stay away. Thankfully he is afraid of the police and what people think. I protected his “reputation” for years. Now he is lying and will not accept responsibility, nor seek help. The one time he did he lied and said he did not hit me. Even though there are pictures and a letter from him to me a few days later, full of promises and accepting blame, none in the church has tried to hold him accountable, even after I went to pastor and told him everything, which was very hard for me as I am suffering PTSD and had not yet received any help for that so I sobbed the whole time I talked withpastor. The man still believed my husband’s lies over my truth and the police records, including his arrest. I had to leave that church at the insistence of four different counselors for the state of Alabama. They insisted on no contact in order forme to heal. AsI am 66 years old and the main caregiver for my granddaughter I did what they wanted. And I am finally able to talk about it without too much crying. The horrible intrusive flashbacks have decreased and the insomnia is better. God told me, through counseling, throughHis word, that religion had wanted meto stay with him, but my relationship with Jesus wanted my child and me safe. He calls us to live in peace, follow the laws of the land, and He allows divorce because of hardness of heart, which all abusers have! He gives us free will and forces no man to change, thus no matter how hard, how long, how pitifully I prayed and trusted God to change my husband there was no change. Not because God was unable to override my husbands free will, but because He had chosen never to force us…so He gives choice and free will. My choice ultimately was a Godly decision, to protect myself and granddaughter, but it’s one I should have made 43 years ago. I am not looking for another husband, but if God chooses He will send a kind, Godly man to me. My husband mocks God every Sunday he is in church pretending to be something he is not. If he were truly a Christian he would hear God telling him heneedshelp so he can truly be a new man who would admit his sins and repent. The church should protect the woman’s and children and use the power of the pulpit to cause sinners to repent and to be accountable. People should leave a church that is not speaking the Truth and that is practicing cheap grace for abusers but no grace for the victims, especially to victims who finally have the courage to shine the light on the abuse and the abuser. Stop the silence is one of the slogans in the battle against domestic abuse and violence. The church is afraid of that! Too often because they see speaking the truth as being unforgiving, but speaking out about it is protection and freedom for the victims. A pastor who will not hold an abuser accountable and who believes the lies of an abuser is nt only lacking in moral courage but is showing a great lack of wisdom. When 1 out of 4 women are abused, the pastors in our churches had better become educated in this area. That’s a lot of people who need help and a safe place to worship, and someone who might could make a difference, but has chosen to wink at the sin of abuse has earned nothing but disdain from me. Women, run don’t walk out of the abusive relationship and out of any church who turns a deaf ear to you and a blind eye to the sin. God hates divorce, but He hates abuse even more. It is not a Godly union where there is abuse. You are submitting to the devil and monot to God if you stay in a evil relationship. Submit to God, resist Satan…don’t live with him!